Old Pennar School - Demolition of the Shell is Underway.

Today will probably be your last chance to see Old Pennar School against the skyline.

The contractors for the development of the Old Pennar School site - WB Griffiths - told me that they would let me know when demolition of the school was about to begin.

I was kindly contacted by the site manager yesterday who, true to their word, said that the roof would be holed first (today?) to allow any bats still in residence to find alternative accommodation overnight, and then the demolition of the walls would take place on Friday.

I have tried to contact the demolition sub-contractors to glean some information about their plans for the stonework but, as of 1130 am today, I have had no reply.

The date stone from the north gable of the newer part of the school is to be preserved, and apparently arrangements have been made for this to be installed across the road at Pennar Hall. It would be good if some of the other building stone could be re-used within the community   ......I could make use of some at a restoration project in Bufferland if things go according to plan! I need to rebuild a privy at the bottom of a garden! Some of the larger limestone blocks would make good, vandal proof seating, for example, or could reinstate local garden walls in PD.

If anyone is able to take photographs or video of the demolition that would be good and would supplement any that I take.

Equally any "on the spot" live updates would be well received too!

Some photographs of the gutted interior are below:

I was taught, in the far end of this partitioned space, by Miss Lewis. This is the eastern extension to the original school.

This is the rear of what I remember as Mr Martin's classroom. The removal of the wainscot from the walls reveals the rendering on what was the original eastern gable of c1870s school.

The suspended floor, with sleeper walls in the room next to Mr Martin's classroom. This is the older part of the school and you had to step down into Mr Martin's room. Signs of rot in the floorboards.

The Older part of the school where there was one(?) classroom and the head's office (Mr Harries). I was taught for a short while in the middle room by a Mrs Harris(???). I was traumatised by not being able to read the word "Canary" - kept saying "cannery". Also watched the launch of the QE2 on a black and white TV here.

Again, a view along the Old part of the school. What a fabulous space. To build this now would be massively expensive! Notice the folding partitions ready for "disposal" against the north wall of the building. A light and airy space. Sad!

The western, original part of the building. I was taught in one of the rooms at this end by Mr Price, for a very short while, , who had been a Spitfire pilot - or so it was said. The stove in front of the original fireplace kept the place warm. Latterly, this end of the building was used by a boxing club and as a council store-cum-garage

One of the original, but blocked, fireplaces.

Rubble wall revealed behind the wainscot in Mr Martin's room.

Mr Martin's room again. A limestone corbel supporting one of the roof trusses. Below this an enigmatic "device" - gas light fitting????

A close up of the sleeper walls and timbers for the floor in the old part of the school.  Also, in the past, a place to lose some junk!

Many thanks to WB Griffiths for kindly arranging for the opportunity for me to take these photographs.

The contractors for the demolition are:

http://www.jbandsoncivilengineering.com/

Old Pennar School Demolition Awarded

The contract for the demolition and subsequent building of housing for Pembrokeshire Housing Association (PHA) has been granted as per the text of the email from Mr Sam Stalbow of PHA below:



EXTRACT START



We have now had a pre-contract meeting with the chosen building contractor and contracts are to be signed shortly. As such, we are in a position where we can tell you that the contractor on the scheme is W.B. Griffiths & Son.





The removal of the stone plaque was raised in our meeting and the contractor are aware that this is something we require as part of the demolition. We have not however been able to give any indication of what is to be done with the plaque other than liaising with yourself and the Town Council.





If you would like to contact W.B. Griffiths regarding this, please see details below:





Peter Griffiths

T: 01437 762674

E: peter@wbgriffiths.co.uk

W: www.wbgriffiths.co.uk



EXTRACT END




I have also had some requests asking for an opportunity to look over the school for one last time. I have written to ask if this would be possible and have received a reply. See my next post!

Old Pennar School - latest update on the intended demolition.

If you have not read the previous blog post on the subject of the demolition of Old Pennar School, then please take time to read the post here. It will give you context for this post.

The information I had received regarding the imminent start of the demolition of Old Pennar School was inaccurate and in response to the email I sent Mr Sinnett regarding this (see previous post) on 5 June 2016, I have received the prompt reply below

From: Nigel Sinnett
Sent: ‎05/‎06/‎2016 09:11
To: Adrian James
Cc: Subject: Re: Old Pennar School

Not true

What is your source?

Sent from my iPhone

I sent the reply below as soon as I could after reading Mr Sinnett's response.

From: Adrian James 
Sent: 05 June 2016 16:05
To: Nigel Sinnett

Cc: Subject: RE: Old Pennar School

Dear Nigel

Thanks for the re-assurance that the demolition is not imminent. I was surprised to hear that the school might be demolished without me being told and I am glad that the inaccurate report seems to have been a case of "Chinese whispers".

My source was someone who lives in Pembrokeshire who had been told this by a normally reliable person "in the know".

I apologise for this mistake, but equally I still feel that the loss of the school is both unnecessary and a major snub to the community of Pennar.

I am sure that I will hear from  you or Sam Stalbow in the not too distant future when the contract for the destruction of the school has been settled.

Best wishes

Adrian

Sent from my Windows Phone so apologies for typos.

---

As I posted elsewhere (Facebook Group - Pennar, Pembroke Dock in Old Photographs), at 0926 yesterday,

I have heard from Mr Nigel Sinnett today saying that the demolition is not imminent. He seemed it would look as though there has been some misunderstanding. He seems like an honourable man and I am glad that PHA has not gone against its word about keeping me (us) informed about when demolition will take place.

If anyone else picks up information about the future (or the past) of Old Pennar School, and when the demolition is to take place, please do get in touch. My confidence in the fact that Pembrokeshire Housing Association will keep me (us) informed of their plans has been restored after a shaky 24 hours!!

Old Pennar School......an update.

This is the first post post on this blog for rather a long time - too long I think.

The title of Old Pennar School has now be lodged with the land registry under the ownership of Pembrokeshire Housing Association. They paid £105,000 for the place.

The title has several covenants attached to it. If anyone can explain the purpose and significance of them I would be very grateful!

I have recently been in touch with Mr Nigel Sinnett of the Pembrokeshire Housing Association. I sent the email on or about 7 April 2016. A copy of my email is below:

Dear Nigel

I hope you and yours are well. I have a few questions about the work that PHA will be undertaking at Old Pennar School.

 Firstly, has a start date for the building been decided and if so, when would this be? I would like to be able to have the demise of the building recorded for posterity.

 Secondly, I assume you have plans for the demolition material from the school. What will happen to the limestone, particularly the dressed stone, as well as the internal fixtures of the school – such as partitions, fireplaces (such that survive) and roof timbers? I know of a couple of local heritage based projects that have a use for random limestone walling stone for repair and renovation of a couple of old houses. It would be excellent if some of this stone could be made available to those projects at low/no cost. I must come clean and confess that one of these projects is being undertaken by myself – a house/cottage almost within view of the school that has been virtually untouched since being built in about 1880 – contemporaneous with the school. The stone would be used to help with the repair of the garden wall and restoration of the old garden. The cottage has been in continuous occupation by the same family for over 100 years and retains most of its internal woodwork, which reflects the materials and skills of the workforce at Pembroke Dockyard. Such details would have ben ubiquitous in PD, but sadly in most houses in the town they have been ripped out in the name of progress. The other project is one south of Pembroke where a very old cottage is being rescued, along with a series of old outbuildings, with which I have some involvement. Information about the cottage in Bufferland/Pennar is attached.

It would be excellent too if some parts of the school could be retained in Pennar or lodged with the heritage centre in the Dockyard Chapel? I am thinking particularly of the stone tablet in the north gable of the building or some of the internal folding partitions and doors with their stone settings.

I do understand that the demolition contractors will probably want to make the as much money form the architectural salvage as possible, but if it is not too late, preservation locally of some parts of the building or use locally of the materials (not in land fill!) could be seen as a conciliatory gesture towards the local community who are saddened by the fate of the school.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes

Adrian James

Since writing the above letter it occurred to me that there is a need for a stock of traditional building materials to be maintained in the area of South Pembrokeshire for appropriate renovation projects on old buildings, particularly those listed or in the Pembroke Dock Conservation Area.

(At this point I shall make a relevant aside.... The need for such a supply of architectural salvage was made evident, several years ago, when my Auntie, who lived on Upper Row on Golden Hill in Pembroke, noticed workmen digging in the gutters outside her house. It transpired that they were lifting the old limestone kerbing and gutter setts (and replacing them with concrete!) so that the originals could be used to enhance the streets in Tenby. I thought it was outrageous then and I still think that today.)

The reply that I received form Mr Sinnett, on 15 April 2016, was both full and positive:



Adrian, thanks for your email

I’m sorry but I’ve been out of the office for much of this week and so I haven’t been able to respond. I did ask our development officer responsible for this scheme, Sam Stalbow, to summarise our position for me. I have cut and pasted this below.

The building works are scheduled within our 4 Year Development Programme for the 2016/17 period. A specific date has not been firmed up as of yet, though tenders have now been received and our consultants are currently examining them.

Regarding any building material from the existing school building. On all Pembrokeshire Housing Association development schemes a Principal Contractor is appointed to coordinate the construction phase of the project. Where demolition precedes any building work, it is the Principal Contractor’s responsibility to competently undertake any demolition and to dispose of all arisings/building material as they see fit. This could involve carting off site to an appropriate landfill, crushing to reuse material as aggregate or hardcore, or a plethora of alternatives. It is the contractor’s decision and as such, will affect the cost of the work. This is standard procedure and reflects the tender documentation.

Due to any demolition material ultimately being the responsibility of the principal contractor, my best suggestion would be that we provide a means of contact between you and the Principal Contractor (once appointed). This will allow you to strike up a dialogue with respect to any recycling or reuse of specific building materials.

The reason for this is that as the client, if we were to retrospectively request that building materials be reclaimed, we would essentially invalidate our tender. An example here would be; if a contractor had priced within their tender to demolish the building and crush the stone to use as hardcore. Suggest we were to then retrospectively request the contractor carefully remove and reclaim the quoin stones of the building. This would cost the contractor greatly in that they would have to supply hardcore from elsewhere, as well as change their method for demolition substantially.

It is with this in mind that I feel a dialogue between the principal contractor and yourself would be appropriate, with the aim of agreeing any potential reclamation of building materials. All of our contractors are registered with Considerate Constructors and as part of the Code of Considerate Practice it would be in their best interest to speak with the local community about this.

The development team have worked with a structural engineer to come up with a solution allowing us to retain the stone wall that bounds with the public footpath to the north of the site. Originally this wall was to be demolished and rebuilt. Where possible, we are endeavouring to retain what we can whilst still satisfying the various regulations that we are subject to as a housing association as well as keeping the scheme financially viable.

Additionally, we would look to retain any historically significant items such as the stone tablet on the northern gable, and would seek to liaise with the Town Council regarding the best solution for this.

We would be happy to engage with the Town Council further on this matter. As for the heritage centre, again it would be best for the centre to strike up a relationship with the successful contractor once we have reached a decision on who to appoint. Sam will be able to advise further on this once we have appointed the contractor and as the scheme progresses.

Regards

Nigel



I have this evening, 5 June 2016, heard unconfirmed reports. that the demolition of the school is imminent. I have not received any further correspondence from Pembrokeshire Housing Association, despite their assurances that they would be in touch.

AJ. 5/6/16

Old Pennar School - Response to Request for Listing.

Hello All!
I have finally received a reply to my request to CADW to review the listing status of Old Pennar school.

The first part of the email is my response to their decision, which is printed in full below.

Start.

Dear Rhodri
Many thanks for the reply to my request for a review of the listing of Old Pennar School. I am disappointed by this reply. This will clearly make Pennar a "free fire" zone for developers and dramatically erode the sense of place and community within this ward of Pembroke Dock and add to the disenchantment and sense of abandonment amongst the residents.
The scheme whereby Pembrokeshire County Council is able to determine local listing is, quite frankly, nonsense. They are already the property owners and the arbiters of planning decisions. Such an arrangement is both lacking in transparency and open to abuse. The Welsh Government is short sighted and abdicating its responsibilities if it allows this policy to continue.
I will now try and find out what is to happen to the good quality limestone from the demolition or the roofing material. Will PCC have the sense to claim it for work in renovating properties in the local conservation area? I doubt it.
Still no listed buildings in Pennar.
Best wishes
Adrian
Www.saveoldpennarschool.blogspot.com
PS. I have identified another property in PD that may be worthy of Grade II listing, having compared its interior to the original building drawings, of which I have copies, it is virtually untouched. C.1900. I shall be in touch.

Sent from my Windows Phone so apologies for typos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rhodri.Kelly@Wales.GSI.Gov.UK
Sent: ‎28/‎08/‎2015 14:13
To: adriantajames@hotmail.com
Subject: Old Pennar School, pembroke Dock

Dear Mr James,

Thank you for your emails asking Cadw to consider Old Pennar School, Pembroke Dock for listing, and for the information provided in support of this request.  I am sorry that I have not been able to reply to you sooner.

As explained in the email dated 30 April which was issued by my colleague, Tina Moverley, the school would have been looked at for listing in 1994 when Cadw resurveyed the entire Pembroke Dock community for historic buildings.  Pembroke Dock is a relatively intensive area for listing and we are confident that the fieldwork included the locality of Pennar, and that the school was seen, given its building type and location, but rejected as it did not meet the published strict criteria for listing.  Cadw’s Historic Buildings Inspector has carefully reconsidered the case for listing in light of your request and the information you have kindly provided, but has advised that there is nothing to suggest that the building’s significance was overlooked previously.

We acknowledge that the building has some historic interest as an early board school and there are some points of architectural interest (the stone detailing to the exterior, the roof structure where visible and the one surviving fireplace).  However, it has been altered through historic extensions and later changes such as the plastic windows, internal boarding and removal of features and as a result of these alterations, is no longer considered to be a good example of its type. There are better examples of early schools and those that are listed set the benchmark against which new candidate buildings are assessed.  In this instance, there are comparable buildings that are more architecturally distinguished at the national level and listed as being better examples of this building type with exceptional architectural character.  For example:

Former Church School, St Davids.  1873 former National or Church School.
Former Capel Dewi School, Llanarthney.  Listed as a well-preserved and good example of an 1870-Education-Act village school.
Barham Memorial School, Trecwn.  Included as a well-designed and executed later Victorian school, with advanced architectural detail unusual for the period.
Cwmbach County Primary School, Whitland.  Included as a little-altered C19 primary school building, of group value with the chapel adjoining.

You should also be aware that listing is not intended to be a preservation order or a block on development, but rather a planning marker designed to sympathetically manage change in historically and architecturally important properties.

I appreciate that the absence of a statutory listing will be disappointing to you, but as the strict criteria for listing are not met, there is no basis on which to list.  The option of local listing is available to a local planning authority and while local listing in itself does not protect such buildings from demolition, it can be a material consideration in the planning process. You may wish to take this up with Pembrokeshire County Council.


Kind Regards,
Rhodri Kelly


Rhodri Kelly
Gwasanaeth Amgylchedd Hanesyddol (Cadw) / Historic Environment Service (Cadw)
Llywodraeth Cymru / Welsh Government
                                                                                                                                       
Ffôn / Tel: (01443) 336003
Ffacs / Fax: (01443) 336001
E-bost: kellyr@cymru.gsi.gov.uk / E-mail: kellyr@wales.gsi.gov.uk

Helpwch yr amgylchedd - peidiwch ag argraffu hon os nad oes gwir raid.
Help our environment - only print this if really necessary.

Dilynwch Cadw / Follow Cadw:
www.cadw.cymru.gov.uk | www.cadw.wales.gov.uk
www.facebook.com/pages/Cadw/254566024556911 <span style="font-size:10

End

Demolish Old Pennar School - Demolition Approved.

I am downhearted today. The application to demolish Old Pennar School was determined yesterday and conditional planning approval was given.

I feel a massive sense of injustice in the whole affair - but it is not over yet. There could be a Judicial Review! More about this in a later post........

Progress is progress, but at what price? Should one of the few buildings left in Pennar, that holds a communal connection with the past be eradicated to provide yet more housing?

That people need places to live cannot be denied - it is a human right to be able to live, with your family, where you wish. Does this mean that everything else is subsidiary to this? I think not! The basis of society is family. As Mrs Doubtfire said, "There are all sorts of different families, Katie.", and family is a generational thing. A community of families needs a sense of place, an identity - this is the cement of a civilised society and places the community in both time and space. Do people want to live in a landscape devoid of any concrete statement of their communal heritage?

My experience as a teacher for many years has taught me that a school is focus for a community. "School days are the happiest days of your life" - not true for all, but so true for the majority. School days are NOT, in our memories, about the 3Rs - they are about the teachers who made a connection with us, the social life of the playground, the subversive passing of notes, the moaning about school dinners, the adoration of spotted dick and custard, the friends we made, the "falling outs" we had (a girl thing mainly;)) and the tumult of learning about how to deal with the vast complexity of life.

All these things happen in a school. A school is a place where - in the case of Old Pennar School - there were:

....outside loos, frozen milk, coal burner fires in the classroom, football or "Kingy" at break, marbles in the pits along the lane into school. The teachers and their foibles, the screaming swifts, Pioneers, Discoverers, Adventurers and Pilgrims. I was a Pilgrim!

and more.....

Stephen Butland and myself in the wheel-barrow race!!! Football practice in the park - "Sir, I think I've pulled a muscle!"; "James, I didn't know you had any muscles!" Pride in your own stories read out in class or your art work posted on the walls of the classroom. Lizards and shrews in your desk after lunch. Allowed home early for good work. Watching the launch of the QE2 with Mrs Harris......

How many of us have deliberately driven past our old schools to show our young passengers where we went to school and revisit tales of classroom derring-do?

None of the above plays any role in the planning process. The decision to demolish old buildings is reduced to the type of thing that is written below:


Planning Application - Details

Having regard to the details of the application proposals, and the relevant provisions of the Local Development Plan for Pembrokeshire (adopted 28 February 2013) as summarised below Policies SP 1, SP 14, GN.1, GN.2, GN.26 and GN.37 It is considered that subject to compliance with the conditions attached in this permission, the proposed development would be in accordance with the Development Plan. This informative is intended only to be a summary of the reasons for the granting of planning permission. For further details on the decision, please see the application report under the above reference.


I remain unclear about the details in the "application report under the above reference" . I can't find it or indeed the reference?? 

The documents relating to the application can be found on the PCC Planning website at reference: 14/1098/PA 

Application Details

Planning Application Ref:

14/1098/PA 

Validated Date:

15-Apr-2015 

Decision Date:

26-Aug-2015 

Decision:

Conditionally Approved 

Application Type:

Major (Full) 

Extension of time to:

 

Area:

Pembroke Dock Town Council 

Community:

Pembroke Dock: Pennar 

Main Location:

Old Pennar School, Treowen Road, Pennar, Pembroke Dock, Pembrokeshire, SA72 6NZ 

Full Description:

Demolish existing school and erection of 15 dwellings 

Status:

Decision Made 

Comment:

This application has already been decided. You cannot comment on it 

• Address Details
• Conditions & Reasons
• View Documents
• Appeal Details
• Legal Agreements Info

Decision Details

Decision: Conditionally Approved 

Decision Date: 26-Aug-2015 

Conditions/Reasons For Refusal

Type	Short Desc
Condition	Drainage Scheme
Condition	Protected Species Mitigation
Condition	Traffic Management Plan
Condition	Access amendments
Condition	Demolition method statement
Condition	Affordable Housing
Condition	5 year standard time limit
Condition	Plan Specification
Condition	Implement parking on plan
Informative	Contact Natural Resources Wales
Informative	Reason for grant of planning permission

                                                                            

 I will be writing more about this very soon. Meanwhile, there are threads running on the following Facebook Groups.

I Live in Pembrokeshire and I Love it!"
Pembroke and Pembroke Dock in Old Photographs
Pennar, Pembroke Dock in Old Photographs

Also see Facebook Page: Save Old Pennar School

Old Pennar School - What you might get for the rocks etc...

Why demolish Old Pennar School?

One reason could be the value of the actual demolition materials.

This point was raised at the meeting in Pennar Hall on 11 June 2015. It was poo-pooed by members of the panel, the reason being given that the sale price of such demolition material was very low, and hence not a factor. I thought I would look into this. I came across a website that caters for the sale and exchangw of architectural salvage. This was SalvoWeb.com.

I warn you now, in advance, that if you look at this website you will either think about demolishing your house to sell it off bit by bit or you will buy all sorts of glorious features for your garden.

If I get a moment (or several), I will try and work out the actual income that could be generated from the sale of the building for salvage, but for now I will just quote some prices for items, similar to those that could come from the school, if it were knocked down in a moment of insanity.

Before I start, there is a well known story locally, (as to its veracity I cannot say, but there is oft truth behind the folklore), that the purchase of another iconic PD landmark was closely followed by its demolition. The amount paid for the building was reputedly £10,000, which was amply recouped by the developer who sold all the stone, timber and architectural metalwork for a price that far exceeded his outlay. Some, it is said, in the inns and bars in the town, even crossed the Atlantic to a new life in the New World.

Judge for yourself.

Stone work.

For example, if the building is built from random Old Red Sandstone or random Carboniferous Limestone, with just the quoins (corner blocks) and window/door surrounds of worked and shaped Carboniferous Limestone (the grey stuff) then the going rate for these materials is:

Old Red Sandstone random stones:  about £120 + VAT per ton.
Cartboniferous Limestone random stone: about £60 + VAT per large builders bag up to £250 + VAT per ton.
Worked and shaped Carboniferous limestone blocks: about £220 + VAT per ton.

Both of types of stone mentioned above would have been sourced locally.

Stonework around windows and doors   ...more difficult to quantify, but a small example I found online, being about 1.5 metres x 2 metres was £250 + VAT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Timbers

The roof timbers would seem to be the original timbers put in when the school was built. c1873 and extended c1890.

If the timbers are deal (softwood): For example, 30ft x 15 inches x 15 inches, £350 + VAT per beam.
If Oak, a price of about £50 per cubic foot seems to be the going rate, give or take a few £s. The local source for timber, was of course the Royal Dockyard, which often auctioned off surplus stocks (and there was lots of it!), Some of the timbers might even be more exotic - who knows?

Roof tiles

If the roofing is Welsh Slate (I am a bit dubious about this, although that is how I have heard it described), then they are about £0.70 to £1.30 + VAT each.

Anyway, I do not think that the demolition materials are worth but little money? Do you?