Old Pennar School - What you might get for the rocks etc...

Why demolish Old Pennar School?

One reason could be the value of the actual demolition materials.

This point was raised at the meeting in Pennar Hall on 11 June 2015. It was poo-pooed by members of the panel, the reason being given that the sale price of such demolition material was very low, and hence not a factor. I thought I would look into this. I came across a website that caters for the sale and exchangw of architectural salvage. This was SalvoWeb.com.

I warn you now, in advance, that if you look at this website you will either think about demolishing your house to sell it off bit by bit or you will buy all sorts of glorious features for your garden.

If I get a moment (or several), I will try and work out the actual income that could be generated from the sale of the building for salvage, but for now I will just quote some prices for items, similar to those that could come from the school, if it were knocked down in a moment of insanity.

Before I start, there is a well known story locally, (as to its veracity I cannot say, but there is oft truth behind the folklore), that the purchase of another iconic PD landmark was closely followed by its demolition. The amount paid for the building was reputedly £10,000, which was amply recouped by the developer who sold all the stone, timber and architectural metalwork for a price that far exceeded his outlay. Some, it is said, in the inns and bars in the town, even crossed the Atlantic to a new life in the New World.

Judge for yourself.

Stone work.

For example, if the building is built from random Old Red Sandstone or random Carboniferous Limestone, with just the quoins (corner blocks) and window/door surrounds of worked and shaped Carboniferous Limestone (the grey stuff) then the going rate for these materials is:

Old Red Sandstone random stones:  about £120 + VAT per ton.
Cartboniferous Limestone random stone: about £60 + VAT per large builders bag up to £250 + VAT per ton.
Worked and shaped Carboniferous limestone blocks: about £220 + VAT per ton.

Both of types of stone mentioned above would have been sourced locally.

Stonework around windows and doors   ...more difficult to quantify, but a small example I found online, being about 1.5 metres x 2 metres was £250 + VAT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Timbers

The roof timbers would seem to be the original timbers put in when the school was built. c1873 and extended c1890.

If the timbers are deal (softwood): For example, 30ft x 15 inches x 15 inches, £350 + VAT per beam.
If Oak, a price of about £50 per cubic foot seems to be the going rate, give or take a few £s. The local source for timber, was of course the Royal Dockyard, which often auctioned off surplus stocks (and there was lots of it!), Some of the timbers might even be more exotic - who knows?

Roof tiles

If the roofing is Welsh Slate (I am a bit dubious about this, although that is how I have heard it described), then they are about £0.70 to £1.30 + VAT each.

Anyway, I do not think that the demolition materials are worth but little money? Do you?

Old Pennar School - The meeting

Many thanks to all of you who turned out for the meeting to voice your opinions regarding the proposal to demolish Old Pennar School.

Pennar Hall was full, with 65 people, including the panel and PCSOs present.

I will, of course, enlarge upon this later after I have viewed the file regarding this plan at County Offices later on today.

Heartfelt thanks to Mr Kevin Lewis for bringing the application to everyone's notice.

What next?

Who built Old Pennar School

NThe Pembrokeshire Herald and General Advertiser for 28 February 1873 carried this announcement:

Is anyone out there related to Mr I Hughes?

In one of my earlier posts I showed a photograph of firemen parading at the top of Treowen Road, with the school in the background. A pall of smoke from the oil tanks fire in the late summer of 1940 hangs over the scene. It is noticeable how dark the school building appears. This puzzled me until I studied the picture below:

The render on the top half of the building, probably original, contains much local Old Red Sandstone  grit with lime.

The lighter, lower render is much more recent and contains much cement, making it much lighter.

It would seem that the darker colour of the building in the photograph of firemen on parade may well be due to the dark nature of the Old Red Sandstone inclusion.






A final reminder about the meeting tonight! Location is

Pennar Hall, Treowen Road, Pembroke Dock, SA72 6NZ- See below!

A Trip Around Old Pennar School

In a spare moment I have put together  a video (on my phone). A bit lumpy in parts, but worth a look?

Regrettably, I have been unable to gain access to the interior of the building, but negotiations are continuing. Click the link below to see the the trip:

Link: A walk to and around Old Pennar School

The journey starts with a walk down Treowen Road, heading south, and the school appears on the skyline. After a few reminders of the meeting on 11 June 2015, there is a succession of still shots which look at the school from the east, take you along the path on the north side of the building to the west entrance, past Gothic Cottages. We then go into the site via the west lane and walk around the building in a clockwise direction.

Note how good the roof is! Note how good the interior looks. Well done to PCC for keeping things safe!

Remember the Open Meeting to discuss the plan to demolish Old Pennar School on:

11 June 2015

7 pm

Pennar Hall

Old Pennar School - Alternative Uses

It is all very well succeeding in keeping the school standing, but without use and a commitment to keep it "alive", the efforts will have been in vain. What to do?

What follows are a few ideas, which I hope readers will comment on constructively. They are in no particular order, just as they come to me or how I copy them from my rough notes!

Some of the ideas are only part solutions and will not require use of the whole building. Some ideas will work in parallel in different parts of the site.

Then, there is the need to oversee the future and day to day running of the place. Not for the faint hearted! A trust/charitable group?

1. House with many spectacular features.
The building would make a fantastic house - a Grand Designs type project!

2. Affordable Housing
The building retained, but non-destructively partitioned internally. As suggested and passed in 2012, BUT (Big BUT) higher quality internal arrangement.

3. Community Cinema
The east wing would make a fantastic Community Cinema. Grants are available to start such things up and Pennarites could walk to the Flicks! The space could also be used for lectures, talks and training using the Community Cinema's installations.
BFI; Cinema for All

4. Music Practice Rooms.
These could be constructed in the east/central/west wing and used alongside other facilities mentioned here. It would be independently run as a non-profit organisation to promote musicianship within the area and to encourage young people to develop their talents in this area.

5. Recording Studio
This could run alongside the music practice rooms or other proposals, and again offer a community facility that could be run as a non-profit trust/charity.

6. Dance lessons/school
The west wing would make a fantastic dance floor! Strictly non-profit and a high quality community facility. Beginning to sound like a community arts centre!!
People Dancing

7. Micro-brewery.
The west wing could house a micro-brewery that could produce Pennar's own brew. An artisan enterprise, that could cash in on the trendy call for high quality local beers. "Gut - Pennar's Special Brew".

8. Conference centre
The building is in good condition and could be adapted as a county/business meeting/conference centre, providing employment within the community. See the next suggestion too.

9. Green living centre.
Adding to the offer that Pembroke Dock has for the development of green technologies, the school could become a local centre of excellence in promoting green living ideals. The large south facing roof would support PV energy panels, the north facing roof heat exchange panels. The building itself could become a centre for the training of local people in the skills and knowledge required to meet the growing demand for green energy and other low carbon technologies. A centre that would provide advice and guidance for those in both industry and the domestic home spheres. 
Energy Saving Trust; Tree Hugger; Environment Wales

What ideas do you have?

Save Old Pennar School - Objection and Comments

If you have objected to the proposal to demolish Old Pennar School, then might I ask that you let me have a copy of your objection/comment?

If you have yet to comment, I believe that the application is still open for comments at:

Comments re: demolition of Old Pennar School

This is a very important request and your reply at the earliest opportunity would be most appreciated. Comments on the posts on this blog would be helpful too!

Email: SaveOldPennarSchool@gmail.com

Save Old Pennar School - PCC forget to follow their own plans!

First of all, I must apologise in advance. The post below is pretty boring, but to challenge the demolition of Old Pennar School we all have to be understanding of the way the planners will make their decisions. Here goes........ if it matters, you will keep up!

Pembrokeshire County Council (PCC) has a Local Development Plan (LDP). The full document can be downloaded from PCC LDP. The link will also give you access to some very clear maps of Pembrokeshire which are very useful for building up an insight into the future "layout" of the county.

Naturally, given my attachment to and love of Pembrokeshire, I have read this document and have noticed a few things...........

This glossy booklet of 184 pages sets out what the County Council's vision for the future of Pembrokeshire is. It was adopted in February 2013 and it is the document that guides the future decision making of the council. The forward by Councillor Rob Lewis says, in part,

"This Local Development Plan provides the framework for decisions to be made up

until 2021 on how land is used and developed, for example what type of

development is appropriate or desirable for Pembrokeshire’s economy,

communities and environment and how best to secure resilience to climate

change and to bring forward affordable housing through the Planning System. It is

the culmination of a major piece of work that has included engaging with the

community, stakeholders, and elected members over a number of years and its

completion and adoption is a significant milestone for the County Council."

I wonder how much the process all cost? Another day perhaps...... However, we all need rules to guide us....................?

In relation to the future of Old Pennar School, the sections on General Policy, that relate to Affordable Housing and the site of the school, are particularly relevant

GN.26 Residential Development p. 110

GN.27 Residential Allocations p. 113

GN.28 Local Needs Affordable Housing p. 116

GN.29 Exception Sites for Local Needs Affordable Housing p. 118

GN.33 Community Facilities p. 121

GN.37 Protection and Enhancement of Biodiversity p. 126

GN.38 Protection and Enhancement of the Historic Environment p. 127

The LDP (page 111) gives PCC policy in relation to redevelopment of sites for housing as:

“6.111 Redevelopment or replacement can allow the development of housing accommodation which is better adapted to meeting present and future housing needs, contribute to energy efficiency and reduced carbon dioxide levels as long as the quality of the environment is enhanced. The existing dwelling should not be a Listed Building, or an important building that defines the character of an area.”

Demolishing the school will erode the identity of Pennar.

A view of the east wing of Old Pennar School

The church and school, along with places work, define the character of any community. In Pennar, the old school, St Patrick's Church, the church hall and the park at the eastern end of Military Road are a focal point for the community. They have a special significance as a group of community buildings. They are landmarks that must have been seen and passed by all who have ever visited this very independent suburb of Pembroke Dock. The

Pennar Hall, used as a canteen for the school and  church Sunday school

school building, commanding an imposing raised plot overlooking the sole road access to Pennar, with its dedication plaque high on its north-east gable, marks the time when the district began to declare its own unique identity. The end of the the nineteenth century saw the arrival of shipbuilding on the Pembroke River, a proposal to run a railway to East Pennar and the arrival of the Royal Engineers on the headland at the end of Military Road. The school is a symbol of this period of time when Pennar came of age.

Please help stop this local landmark form being demolished!!

St Patrick's, Pennar, from the East

The view form the entrance to the park  just up the road and opposite
Old Pennar School. Here sports days, football and cricket games took place,
overlooking medieval Pembroke

Military Road from the park gates

Treowen Road from in front of the church and hall

Old Pennar School - Fight the Good Fight

It is good to find such a sympathetic planning application for a property not a million miles away from Old Pennar School.

St Andrew's Church in Bush Street, Pembroke Dock, closed a while ago. It has a beautiful interior, but dwindling congregation numbers have forced the inevitable.

It has been acquired by the Pembroke Amateur Boxing Club. The statement on the planning application is admirable!

More details of the application can be found here.

If only the same could be said for the application to redevelop Old Pennar School!!!

Remember, the open meeting is on the 11 June. Do come along!

Old Pennar School - Open Meeting on 11 June 2015

The meeting is at Pennar Hall, Treowen Road, Pennar, Pembroke Dock, SA72 6SN.

See the poster below. See you there!

Old Pennar School - Open Public Meeting 11 June 2015

Good News! There is to be Public Open Public Meeting about the future of Old Pennar School on 11 June 2015.

There will be a Public Meeting held on the 11th of June at St Patrick's Hall at 7 o'clock to discuss the Planning Application by Pembrokeshire Housing , Attending will be Pembrokeshire Housing Association (PHA), Pembrokeshire County Council (PCC), Alison Lee Cabinet member for Housing.

Come along and have your say.

St Patrick's Church Hall can be found by clicking the link.

St Patrick's Church Hall Map

Other useful links:

Pembrokeshire Housing Association

Pembrokeshire County Council

Pembroke Dock Town Council